Jobs interview

1987

I bought an Apple ][ computer in 1978 and I loved it, like only a young nerd can love a computer. I moved to California to work at Apple in 1983. After 4 wonderful years there, I left with my boss to start a new company, because that's what you did, even back then. Working at Apple was thrilling, and I learned a lot, but by 1987 I was a little bored, so leaving seemed like a good idea.

That startup didn't work out for me. After just 6 months, I wanted out of there. Not ready or able to retire at age 27, I needed another job. I conducted a thorough and extensive search of all 2 companies ever founded by Steve Jobs. Before long, I had an interesting offer to return to Apple. But I also managed to score an interview at NeXT, Inc, the company Steve Jobs started when he left Apple. NeXT was still in stealth mode. People knew they were making some kind of powerful computer, but there were few details.

So I had my interview at NeXT, to be a technical writer, working on documentation for NeXT software developers. I was subjected to the typical Silicon Valley all-day many-person interview. Most people hate these kinds of interviews. I enjoyed them. Maybe it’s because interviews are a kind of performance, and I like being onstage. It’s only after they hire you that it becomes hard work.

But nobody would tell me any details about what they were making. It was a huge secret. Most of my interviewers knew me from Apple, and they focused mainly on selling me on NeXT. Can't you tell me something about the product, I asked? No. You have to take a leap of faith, they said. Repeatedly.

My final interview was to be with Steve Jobs. I was told that Steve had to interview everyone who might be hired. I was nervous, but excited. I was a huge fan of Steve but had never really met him during my time at Apple.

Interviewed by Steve Jobs

Steve entered the little interview room and sat down 3 feet away from me across a tiny round table. He leaned forward, looked right at me, and said: “Are you the best technical writer in the world?”

I was stunned into silence for a few seconds, as I tried to figure what to say. And then, like an idiot, I gave a direct, thoughtful answer. “No. The best technical writer in the world is my friend Caroline Rose, and she already works here at NeXT.”

Steve sat back and smiled that smile of his. His expression seemed to say he was pleased that he already employed the greatest technical writer in the world, but he was disappointed that I was too stupid to give the right answer.

He gave me another shot. “OK. Are you the second-best technical writer in the world?” Now I know the game, I thought. “Yes,” I said. He smiled a happier smile.

The rest of the interview with Steve seemed to go fine. Like the others, he wouldn’t tell me anything about what they were building. He asked me some technical questions about computer graphics, but really spent his time selling me on the company, as the others had. It was clear that the prior interviewers had decided I was a “hire,” and he wasn’t disagreeing. When Steve left the room after 25 minutes, I exhaled. I felt good about my chances.

Now what do I do?

Sure enough, a few days later Dan’l Lewin from NeXT called to offer me a job. The day after that, I received an offer letter from NeXT. At the bottom was the place for me to sign. Above the signature line it read:

"I accept this insanely great offer!!!"

I’m sure all the NeXT offer letters of that era had the same exhortation on the signature line.

So now I had to decide whether to return to the familiar cubicles of Apple or head into the unknown at NeXT.

Well, I just couldn't take that leap of faith. I wasn’t sure about the future of NeXT. Most people at that time thought Steve's best work was already behind him. I agreed with that. I didn’t really know him. How could anyone imagine the incredible future ahead for Steve and his products and companies? And also, the idea of commuting all the way to Palo Alto didn’t thrill me - it might take half an hour each way!

I decided to return to Apple instead. After some time away from there, I missed the place. So I called Dan’l at NeXT and declined the offer. He said he was disappointed, but he accepted my decision. He said Steve would probably call me back, “so get ready for that.” I said OK, and braced myself for Steve’s call, sure that I had made the right decision.

Just when I thought it was over

Minutes later, Steve called. His opening line to me: "Scott, I hear you don't want to work with the best people in the valley, on the coolest new technology, making an incredible new product. Is that true? Do I have that right?"

Stunned. Silent.

Once again, I tried to figure out how to answer. I stammered and laughed nervously. I managed to say that I had decided to work at Apple, avoiding his direct question that was impossible to answer anyway. Not answering the question directly was a good idea; mentioning Apple probably was not.

We went back and forth a few times. I didn't budge and eventually he stopped pushing. Finally, he asked if there was anyone else I could recommend. I gave the name of a friend (let's call him Earl) who was still working at Apple. I was relieved to be past the point when I had to say no to Steve Jobs. We hung up.

But it wasn't over yet. Three days later, my phone rang at 11:30 PM. That never happened. I answered.

"Is this Scott? Scott who works at Apple?" He spat out the last word in a mocking tone.

"Um, that's me." I thought I recognized the voice.

"Hi Scott. This is Steve Jobs. Can you help us find your friend Earl? We interviewed him and now he disappeared. We think Apple has him locked in a room or something."

Terrified of having to say no to Steve Jobs again, I gave him Earl's unlisted number. I'm not sure I ever apologized to Earl for that.

"Thanks. Oh, and, let us know when you get tired of Apple again."

"Uh, I will, Steve. Thanks." We hung up and that was it.

I’m happy with the way things turned out in my career. But sometimes I wish I had accepted that insanely great offer.

And I did get to keep this lovely parting gift.